Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

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matthew
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:38 pm

Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by matthew » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:41 am

I'd like to suggest adding access--maybe special access with GM approval--to a public test realm, or PTR, and here's why:

Balancing BCNMs and Encounters

Zuri and I have been working on the WSNMs. Sure we can sit there and do the encounters all day, but it will be difficult to know if they feel right without having other players actually get in there, gear up like they were on era retail, complete the encounters, and say "that seems how I remember it."

Testing Mechanics

Recently, I bought a Buzzard Tuck, and was more than disappointed to find that it didn't respect the special effect (+2 to en-spells).

I've been crafting on ninja tools prematurely, just to hear every potential buyer say that the elemental wheel "doesn't work" here. I could open up a bug report, but I've got nothing to report yet, and I don't really want to spend my hard earned gil testing why something is broken.

Since the code base is split from DSP, there are many issues that are fixed in core--such as the buzzard tuck--which remain in kupo. Therefore, one cannot just spin up a dsp core and test locally.

Testing for Regressions

Every time there's a change, something breaks. Most recently it was BST pet commands. Regression testing is impossible by a dev team of two. We need actual players actually playing to make sure regressions are baseline minimal.

What do you guys think? Would you like to see a PTR? Would you be interested in working towards a more authentic era experience by testing on a PTR?

nik
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by nik » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:59 pm

Not much to add besides that I definitely agree with you. There's certain things 1-2 people simply can't test properly by themselves.

jamiehavok
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:16 pm

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by jamiehavok » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:39 pm

Having a permanently open test sever would just take players away from the main server but i agree that maybe the test server could be opened to test specific things for limited times, invite only. For example the devs want to test a new bcnm, invite 6 people possibly including icon and NL themselves and give everyone a character of the appropriate lvl with gm abilities to speed up entrance to the bcnm by creating seals and whatnot, and test the bcnm several times.

Icon
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by Icon » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:10 pm

The major problem with opening a test server is unless we completely re-engineered the client/server port system ... as far as I know we'd need another IP to host another server. The staff here have no interest in spending further money and time on setting another server up. There are several other problems with a test server... some of them already mentioned:
Takes population away from main server
Players may not know the correct values so their testing may not be helpful
Dev team probably needs to be present while testing is done for it to be relevant

We run this server as a hobby, we have jobs, apartments, friends, lives, etc to maintain outside running this server. While we hope you enjoy it to the fullest we are not going to sacrifice our lives for your enjoyment of a private server. We are not compensated for this in any way shape or form.

We welcome players to submit code to be committed to the server. Our combat and magic systems have been completely re-written from DSP base so no one outside the dev team could balance for combat here. If you submit lua scripts and DB scripts we will take care of the final balancing. We would have to do this anyway because it is highly likely that there are issues with any code submitted to or written by us.

Icon
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by Icon » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:12 pm

matthew wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:41 am
Testing for Regressions

Every time there's a change, something breaks. Most recently it was BST pet commands. Regression testing is impossible by a dev team of two. We need actual players actually playing to make sure regressions are baseline minimal.

What do you guys think? Would you like to see a PTR? Would you be interested in working towards a more authentic era experience by testing on a PTR?
I'd like to mention that this was fixed within an hour. All major bugs with our patches have been fixed within a few hours of their application to the server.

Elk
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by Elk » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:30 pm

I think PTRs have their uses - testing high volume content or big changes - they're overall beneficial I would imagine. Mods are doing great from what I have experienced thus far, so if they had a PTR or not I think either is fine.

Agree fully with jamiehavok that having one open all the time or to public without invite would just detract from the growing player count.

Cadant
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by Cadant » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:54 pm

I'm of the thinking 'be happy with what you have' because the alternatives are much worse lol.

Yeah it would be cool if all the private server runners came together to work on it as a whole, but it will never happen.

matthew
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by matthew » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:43 pm

Icon wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:10 pm
We run this server as a hobby, we have jobs, apartments, friends, lives, etc to maintain outside running this server. While we hope you enjoy it to the fullest we are not going to sacrifice our lives for your enjoyment of a private server. We are not compensated for this in any way shape or form.

We welcome players to submit code to be committed to the server. Our combat and magic systems have been completely re-written from DSP base so no one outside the dev team could balance for combat here. If you submit lua scripts and DB scripts we will take care of the final balancing. We would have to do this anyway because it is highly likely that there are issues with any code submitted to or written by us.
That's the problem. You don't have the time or resources to give this as much attention as it might otherwise receive. That's why you need help.

If your code was open source, we could take a look right into the code to look for issues like the one's I've mentioned. I doubt that's an option for you, so a PTR is a nice balance.

I'm not pointing the finger. I'm just saying that every developer needs help testing.

matthew
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by matthew » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:46 pm

Agree fully with jamiehavok that having one open all the time or to public without invite would just detract from the growing player count.
Why? Have you ever seen this happen in history?

PTR is common in both retail and private server versions of WoW. They are an integral part of the server development lifecycle. I'd be open to the argument that PTR pulls players away if there was evidence. In fact, I think a more valid argument is that there wouldn't be enough people testing to justify having the server. But even with that argument, the benefits outweigh the costs.

Mercer.Keel
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:56 pm

Re: Why Kupo Suffers Without a PTR

Post by Mercer.Keel » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:02 am

icon already shot it down. No point trying to push it more.
Image

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