Fafnir

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Elysien
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:32 pm

Fafnir

Post by Elysien » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:20 pm

Hey there all.

So, most people who know Fafnir from retail who have fought it on Kupo most likely know it is quite a deal more powerful here as opposed to the former. We've all felt the force of the devastating Hurricane Wing. I want to collaborate with people to assist with the developers getting it finer tuned.

From what I can see, the main issue pertains to Hurricane Wing now. Although from our last attempts, tanks have been reporting a noticeably high double attack rate as per Fafnir's most recent re-release. Double attack trait for warrior monsters is 15%~, very few enemies deviate from this, and Fafnir is not one of them based on some research I did for another server awhile back. Other than that, Fafnir to me appears to be good, the breath damage and mechanic, which I have heard is difficult to get right for a number of reasons is looking good, so well done to the developers on that one. TP frequency is also looking quite accurate, so great one there, too.

I'd like to direct attention to this video of Fafnir fought in 2009. Obviously, it's 2009, not the era we're set in. However, main point of this video is to get a look at hurricane wing damage, of which would not have been different from a 2003 Fafnir.

The video itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnlXjwhoV98

The first Hurricane Wing in the video occurs at 6:50 into the video. The recorder of the video appears to be a Dark Knight, who has absolutely no defensive buffs on them, not even shell, and received this much damage:

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Also note the players Fireheart taking 0 damage, and Jiangjunizzy receiving 15 damage. They had at least Stoneskin up, while as for here, even with a maxed Stoneskin build, a fairly strong Phalanx active, and my Red Mage Magic Defence Bonus job traits. I am receiving 200 or so damage from wings through my Stoneskin.

Here is another wing, the second wing of the video, that launches at 7:38 into the video:

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Even less damage, this one would appear to have been (quite) a lucky partial resist for the unbuffed Dark Knight, likely due to Dark Knights somewhat respectable base INT relative to other jobs. Fireheart and Jiang took reasonably the same amount of damage, the randomizer in the formula made this one deal a little more damage for them than the last.

Final screenshot, and the third wing of the video occurring at 8:13 into the video:

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Damage is almost identical to the first screenshot, which makes sense, magical attacks have much fewer damage randomizers in the formula than physical/melee damage does.

There are more wings as the video finishes, but they are all consistent with the screenshots shown thus far. It seems that a Lv.75 player, completely unbuffed defensively, appears to take 350~380 points of damage from an unresisted Hurricane Wing.

For those doubting current TP frequency, this video also demonstrates how the developers here have captured it quite well for this server. The issue making Fafnir a beast is the current Hurricane Wing damage.
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Icon
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Fafnir

Post by Icon » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:29 pm

We've made modifications to hurricane wing after observing the two LS's who fought him over the past couple days. Looking forward to more epic battles and thank you for providing good research! ^^

Elysien
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Fafnir

Post by Elysien » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:42 pm

Icon wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:29 pm
We've made modifications to hurricane wing after observing the two LS's who fought him over the past couple days. Looking forward to more epic battles and thank you for providing good research! ^^
Awesome, thank you! And good luck to all.
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Mercer.Keel
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:56 pm

Re: Fafnir

Post by Mercer.Keel » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:49 am

Good stuff to hear. I was worried that flail would be a problem with the odd facing that mobs sometimes do. Keep up the strong work.
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Mcdohl
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:47 pm

Re: Fafnir

Post by Mcdohl » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:58 am

Dragon breath damage is still a little high here as well. In this video it does around 360-390ish which is consistent with what I remember. I tanked this thing a bajillion times during era and I remember that it took roughly a cure4 to heal back up from a breath. Currently Fafnir's dragon breath on Kupo does over 600 damage. This isn't a make-or-break difference like the wing damage but I figured I'd point it out anyway.

Cadant
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Fafnir

Post by Cadant » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:18 pm

I rarely did HNMs back in the day so I have no anecdotes to offer, but I will point out that if the video was from 2009 and he never shows his gear, there may be some difference there. Aside from the fact that he's using a scythe and walmart turban at the start, I can't make out the rest of the gear because the video was shot on a potato. The first hurricane wing didn't even blind him (not sure if that misses regularly or not. The 2nd and 3rd landed and the last one killed him so who knows).

Off the top of my head, I don't know of any specific big wind resistance gear that was added in ToAU or wings, but Rather than nerfing and un-nerfing things or making them too easy like other servers, I thought I'd mention it may be a possibility for the difference you guys are seeing? Could he have defending ring on? Succor ring? I couldn't tell if he blinks or not when he changes gear, valhalla helm could be another possibility?

Anyways, just spitballing... Keep up the good work testing and adding these fights. Hopefully I'll be 75 by the time sky gets added :X

Elysien
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Fafnir

Post by Elysien » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:33 pm

At 26 seconds into the video you get a clear view of what he has visually equipped, which is W.Turban, Askar Korizan, Dusk Gloves, Aurum Leggings, and Dusk Ledelsens. Naturally we're unable to see their mantle, belt, accessories and other things, but I highly doubt that they have anything other than some DPS-enhancing gear equipped there. I mean, he doesn't even have shell, speaks a bit for the quality of the strategy and/or how they value the Dark Knight. As for blinking gear, unless you're botting, there is no way, especially in those laggy conditions, are you switching into a defensive build in time for wing. Hurricane Wing executes very fast, it's even difficult to effectively stun without a bot.

Hurricane Wing's blind effect being resisted is totally within reason, though a rarity unless you build specifically for it. The blind effect most likely has a maximum land rate on him, which would be 95%, so they got lucky on that 5% resist chance, not that it really mattered much anyways.
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Cadant
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Fafnir

Post by Cadant » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:06 pm

In regards to not blinking, I was thinking more along the lines of him having his equipment locked into something different than what it appears he's using.

As I said, just spitballing. I didn't do math on it or anything, but if it's within reason that he could be using -damage taken gear, it shouldn't be ignored no matter how bad the person looks.

Edit: Bored at work like usual. Decided to look at more fafnir videos because what the hell...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WypDebNvXzw&t=82s
Just skimmed through the video to see when the blind icon appears. Might have been an earlier one not sure, but...
@5:34 wing hits and the pld takes 400 dmg from it.
@6:49 his gear is shown. Probably just what he idles in, but it should be the same as when he gets hit by wing. Appears that the only magic dmg reducing gear is the bow which is mdb +1 or 2 if hq.

Faf could have raged at this point but I don't think so? I don't know what normal hits from him were on a tank, but when you can see his damage on their other pld it's crit 396, normal hit 286, and i assume a shield block hit for 72. This occurs right before the hurricane wing at 5:15

Mercer.Keel
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:56 pm

Re: Fafnir

Post by Mercer.Keel » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:05 am

Cadant wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:06 pm
but if it's within reason that he could be using -damage taken gear, it shouldn't be ignored no matter how bad the person looks.

With the gear he is showing is his TP build gear there is no way he has all that other nice gear for -dmg taken. Its easy to see he is a AH built drk. Even say he had that -dmg taken gear from his pld a lot of that other pld gear works great for drk I.E. Homam hands, legs, feet. and if he doesn't not have any homam gear then he definitely doesn't have a good -dmg build that would block that much.

Its just to easy to see that they are not hiding something special.
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Cadant
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Fafnir

Post by Cadant » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:36 pm

I guess. I mean in all likelihood you're right and what you see is what you get. I've also seen (while meriting on colibri) a relic rng who used all AF and never swapped gear. I've seen more than one instance of PLD who had all AH gear but still had D ring. Great looking players can be trash and crappy looking players can still have good gear. Just throwing it out there to consider, I don't care if it gets adjusted, I won't even be 75 for months lol

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