Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

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Treble
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Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Treble » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:15 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Mxj7g9OwI This video also has some combat from February of 2005, though I recommend muting your PC because this music is questionable.

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Treble
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Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Treble » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:34 pm

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/41818 ... and-HNM-TP A little information relating directly to HNMs specifically and the below 25% stage I mentioned on IRC

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Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Icon » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:41 am

I've read all but one of the threads you've linked already. That is what the current mob TP usage is based on. I think if you do some tests on our server you'll find it is working quite well. At least it works just like all the old forums say it should... and that's what we're going for old school 2002-05 TP usage.

I've noticed a large number of parties with 4-5 melee DDs and sometimes there are pets too. I don't think you realize just how much TP that is in a full attack round (also subtle blow is coded here.) I'm not going to tell people how to play FFXI because that's no fun and what's the point? But seriously people played a little different back in the day than how they have post CoP.

Scott
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Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Scott » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:48 am

I don't think that I'm pulling this out of nothing but I do seem to recall that most mobs didn't use TP until they were at 300. I have no proof of that though. Just heard it off a JP player in my retail HNM shell. There may be something on the internet in Japanese if anyone can search and translate.

Zuri
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Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Zuri » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:16 am

For what it's worth, the party in which we nearly wiped to Water Ball spam was RDM BLM BRD PLD THF and I think either a DRK or a RNG. Some obvious concessions (due to RDM main heal) are that only the tank had a level appropriate Shell up, no Barwatera, and only Tier 1 Curaga. As a career WHM on era retail I still say it was a bit much.

I haven't done much testing yet, but I'm reading up on some of the Japanese websites to see if any differences exist. As far as I can tell, most of the math is the same, but expressed slightly differently. A couple things might be worth mentioning though.

FFO wiki / Studio Gobli publish the same TP gain formula as BG, but with an explicit note that it should be rounded down (Original|Google Translate, scroll down to 変遷 / "Transition"). Didn't see that mentioned on the Wikia page, not sure if it's implemented. Probably doesn't make a huge difference either way, but it's something.

Here's Subtle Blow. Not sure about this one, maybe someone else can make better sense of it. (Possible the difference is simply due to the TP values being multiplied by 10? I quit retail before that change.)
Wikia: (Base TP + 30) * (1 - SubtleBlow%)
Gobli: (Base TP + 3) * (100-SubtleBlow)/100

Will continue digging.

Cadant
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Cadant » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:55 pm

Treble wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:15 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Mxj7g9OwI This video also has some combat from February of 2005, though I recommend muting your PC because this music is questionable.
My old Canadian friend Shykre... haha that's great. I wish expeditionary force worked :(
Scott wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:48 am
I don't think that I'm pulling this out of nothing but I do seem to recall that most mobs didn't use TP until they were at 300. I have no proof of that though. Just heard it off a JP player in my retail HNM shell. There may be something on the internet in Japanese if anyone can search and translate.
This is how I thought it worked too. Granted, I only remember it working this way through word of mouth from others as well. Once mobs got to 25% they would TP at 100 too.

Where is this mob TP spam happening? I haven't seen it happen in a party yet. The highest place I've partied at is Bibiki though

Elysien
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Elysien » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:17 pm

Cadant wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:55 pm
Treble wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:15 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Mxj7g9OwI This video also has some combat from February of 2005, though I recommend muting your PC because this music is questionable.
My old Canadian friend Shykre... haha that's great. I wish expeditionary force worked :(
Scott wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:48 am
I don't think that I'm pulling this out of nothing but I do seem to recall that most mobs didn't use TP until they were at 300. I have no proof of that though. Just heard it off a JP player in my retail HNM shell. There may be something on the internet in Japanese if anyone can search and translate.
This is how I thought it worked too. Granted, I only remember it working this way through word of mouth from others as well. Once mobs got to 25% they would TP at 100 too.

Where is this mob TP spam happening? I haven't seen it happen in a party yet. The highest place I've partied at is Bibiki though
Above 25% HP enemies would use TP at random times, for example they could go off at 1500 / 2300 / 2500 / 3000, etc. If they reach 3000TP, they will then go immediately upon reaching that. The conditions for what determined them to go off at random values is unknown, even on retail, after all these years. If I had to guess, I'd say as soon as an enemy is engaged, a random TP value to go off is assigned to it, then another as soon as it uses the first, and so forth. There are quite a few other ways it may have been done, though.

Below 25%, they would go upon reaching 1000TP immediately. Just for reference in a party setting, a single Warrior alone, using the "Great Axe" weapon with a delay of 504 would be feeding an enemy 167 TP/hit, before any Subtle Blow. This calculation is true to retail, and now is here, too. That alone is quite a bit of TP, when you have 3-4 additional players meleeing it, enemies will gain TP very fast, not to mention generating their own TP via their own hits.

Something worth noting is all damaging spells, regardless of the damage, will feed approximately 100TP/cast. So, a Dia II dealing 4 damage will feed the same amount of TP as a Blizzard IV dealing 1,120 damage.
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jamiehavok
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:16 pm

Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by jamiehavok » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:07 pm

Elysien wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:17 pm
Something worth noting is all damaging spells, regardless of the damage, will feed approximately 100TP/cast. So, a Dia II dealing 4 damage will feed the same amount of TP as a Blizzard IV dealing 1,120 damage.
did this get implemennted here? last i checked there was no tp on spells!? Also does tp at 1000% at -25% health work here? i swear that didnt work on that other server and it was just random no matter what the health of the mob was.

Scott
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Scott » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:38 pm

jamiehavok wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:07 pm
Elysien wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:17 pm
Something worth noting is all damaging spells, regardless of the damage, will feed approximately 100TP/cast. So, a Dia II dealing 4 damage will feed the same amount of TP as a Blizzard IV dealing 1,120 damage.
did this get implemennted here? last i checked there was no tp on spells!? Also does tp at 1000% at -25% health work here? i swear that didnt work on that other server and it was just random no matter what the health of the mob was.
During our era TP was not gained by casting spells by mob or player and IIRC only mobs could gain TP from spells cast on them, not players.

Scott
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Mob TP; petition/plea/cry for help

Post by Scott » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:39 pm

Elysien wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:17 pm
Cadant wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:55 pm
Treble wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:15 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Mxj7g9OwI This video also has some combat from February of 2005, though I recommend muting your PC because this music is questionable.
My old Canadian friend Shykre... haha that's great. I wish expeditionary force worked :(
Scott wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:48 am
I don't think that I'm pulling this out of nothing but I do seem to recall that most mobs didn't use TP until they were at 300. I have no proof of that though. Just heard it off a JP player in my retail HNM shell. There may be something on the internet in Japanese if anyone can search and translate.
This is how I thought it worked too. Granted, I only remember it working this way through word of mouth from others as well. Once mobs got to 25% they would TP at 100 too.

Where is this mob TP spam happening? I haven't seen it happen in a party yet. The highest place I've partied at is Bibiki though
Above 25% HP enemies would use TP at random times, for example they could go off at 1500 / 2300 / 2500 / 3000, etc. If they reach 3000TP, they will then go immediately upon reaching that. The conditions for what determined them to go off at random values is unknown, even on retail, after all these years. If I had to guess, I'd say as soon as an enemy is engaged, a random TP value to go off is assigned to it, then another as soon as it uses the first, and so forth. There are quite a few other ways it may have been done, though.

Below 25%, they would go upon reaching 1000TP immediately. Just for reference in a party setting, a single Warrior alone, using the "Great Axe" weapon with a delay of 504 would be feeding an enemy 167 TP/hit, before any Subtle Blow. This calculation is true to retail, and now is here, too. That alone is quite a bit of TP, when you have 3-4 additional players meleeing it, enemies will gain TP very fast, not to mention generating their own TP via their own hits.

Something worth noting is all damaging spells, regardless of the damage, will feed approximately 100TP/cast. So, a Dia II dealing 4 damage will feed the same amount of TP as a Blizzard IV dealing 1,120 damage.
Yeah, I agree with this. This sounds more accurate.

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