Economy Discussion

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Tride
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:44 pm

Economy Discussion

Post by Tride » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:00 pm

Not trying to start an argument or anything. I'm looking for answers from people more knowledgeable than myself on the subject...

I'm at the point where spells are getting super expensive and have basically hit a wall in how far I can level without being super gimped. I need to come up with about 350k to be completely up to date with spells.

As of now I, and I'd guess mostly everyone who is new, have relied mostly on repeatable quests for money. This hasn't been too bad, I have quested as much gear as possible and bought the essentials. However, having to rely on repeatable quests to farm up ~250k (phalanx isn't super necessary atm) is going to be pretty awful. This issue is made worse due to the fact that some things like dispel come from bcnm fights (besides npcs) that are not implemented on the server so you're forced to pay the high ~65k price at the npc. I fully intend to farm the money, but wish there were other options.

Aside from getting lucky on LL or something, new people are mostly forced to spam bat wings or the other repeatable quests for money. wind, water, and earth crystals sell for barely more than you can npc them for, on the AH. Fire still sells for an okay amount, but farming bat wings is still more worthwhile than that. I don't mean to say you can't farm anything. The usual items like silk thread and beehive chips still sell, just not 30 stacks a day like they used to on retail.

I throw as much as I can on the AH, but farming things to sell is usually more trouble than it's worth. Since there is no cap to the amount of items you can place on the AH, it's usually just an undercutting war. Assuming you guess right and undercut more than the last person, it can be fine for a short time to farm things. Eventually you will get undercut again which would be fine, but having no limit on the amount of items you can list makes it a headache to go through and remove things to relist them lower. I'm guessing I have things listed from a month ago, but I'm never going to remove everything I have listed to check and relist it for a price that will actually sell.

This long winded intro leads me to the problems... With no limit on the AH, there could be 500 stacks of X item listed. However, only 20 of those stacks are going to be listed for a price that people will pay. Ex: when I started fire crystals were 1.1k a stack. Last time I sold a stack they were around 800. I'm guessing I have several stacks buried in my listed items up for sale for 1.1k. However, I do realize the need for no limit with a population this small.

Is it possible to implement it so the AH returns unsold items? There is already no fee for listing items so this isn't an issue. If it can be implemented, what reason is there against it? I know things don't sell as quick on here as they did on retail, but maybe have them stay listed for 20 days? I understand if there are bugs and it can't be done. This alone would be a big help as people who have hundreds of little things listed could relist for the adjusted price so they actually sell. I guess this would just keep escalating the undercutting wars though?

Would limiting the amount of items you can list to say... 25 or 50 be any kind of help?

Is this just a new player problem? I honestly haven't looked at the market for endgame things.

Is any kind of decent economy even viable with such a small playerbase?

Again, not trying to cry for handouts or tips. Genuinely curious if the future of the server has any hope for a decent economy. Admittedly, I am a little annoyed having to rely on repeatable quests and would like to be able to farm different things, but it is what it is.

Thanks!

Scott
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Scott » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:19 pm

I am conflicted in what I think is the best implementation on AH as well...

On one hand you have free, perpetual, and unlimited listings to encourage people to put their stuff on the AH so that those items get in the hands of others.

On the other hand you have a ton of items that are high priced that would normally get sold at a lower price because there is limited space and that seller would need to decide which items they want to hold on to to sell for a higher price and which ones they want to vendor/undercut.

I think that when the server was brand new the first option was best to choose. And we are still really new! But I think we could start transitioning to a more limited AH and I think it would benefit the server economy as a whole. There are really just 3 options that could be implemented. Tax, time limit, and slot limit. I think starting by implementing a time limit would be the best option. That way if people really wanted to relist they could after such and such time. But they'd be consistently reminded "hey this hasn't sold, wanna lower the price?"

Elysien
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Elysien » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:33 pm

My best advice is to find something in demand, and supply it (obviously!)

Crafting materials are generally good for a steady income, high-end crafters will buy "prep work" that you supply, as generally speaking, they can turn a profit off this without the time investment of gathering it themselves, or if they have excess gil, use to progress a craft quicker, progress their GP, or whatever else. To get the best from it you'd want a craft levelled to a point where you can produce that. Some good examples would be Beewax, Silver Ingots, Mythril Ingots, Iron Ingots, Darksteel Ingots, Ram Leather, Tiger Leather, and so forth. If not that though, you can provide the very basis, things like Mythril Ore, Gold Ore, Platinum Ore*, Darksteel Ore, Ram Skins, or Tiger Hides sell well (with the latter, you can in addition, turn in the Tiger Fangs you get to a repeatable quest for even more gil.)

*(price on this is pretty ridiculous for some reason, for the effort involved they sell well too low. I'd pay 30,000G each for them, but you're sure to get more if you're patient, given the circumstances currently involved in obtaining them, and a specific need for them).

If not that though, opt for what most did, and do, on a private server. Thief alt, and live off bird bloods. ;)
Image

Teku
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:08 pm

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Teku » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:14 pm

Your ability to make money is highly dependant on your highest job level. In the early levels of your first job, you're stuck with selling the odds you get from random mobs, which pretty much barely gets you by. I've found that in order to keep from being consistently broke during this time, level all 6 base jobs to 10, not only because you will likely need them anyway at some point, but also because it will allow you to amass and sell a lot of crystals and crap that will fund your main job up to 20. San d'Orians get a bonus by having funguars in Ronfaure that drop dark crystals which will get you upward of 5k/stack.

After that, have a look at the AH and see what's in low stock but seems to sell frequently. Cross-reference with the wiki to determine your ability to farm the item rapidly, also while noting the number of recipes it's used in - the higher the number, the more likely it is to sell. For example, at Lv20 you can go to Tahrongi Canyon and kill Dhalmel, (in addition to Crawlers for silk), for hides and giant femurs - the latter of which is rarely on the AH, and although you can buy it from the guild vendor for 2k+, you can obviously get at least 1.5k, or 15k/stack for them. Additionally, I'd take a moment to research the higher-level recipes of crafts where their ingredients become ever more rare, but highly sought after, resulting in a nice reward from people who are likely to have a lot of money to spend on them.

Seriously, take a visit to the guilds and see what they offer for items that you can get and offer a slightly cheaper price at the AH. Crafters will buy them all, especially those who sell at 30-40% below guild prices, not to mention from you who has done your research and gets 41-100%. At the same time, crafters know the guild prices, and if you price at 101%+, your items are unlikely to move. No, I am not going to buy that copper ore for 200g when it costs 14g from a vendor!

Simple knowledge will alleviate much of the struggle - the rest is simply doing it. A lot of what I've said is common sense stuff, but at the same time, you have to have the common knowledge before you can employ common sense.

Cadant
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Cadant » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:49 pm

While much of what you said is true, Teku, you're still at the mercy of trying to guess what price is best to list your stuff at. For example, I thought mining might be an okay way to make money. Darksteel ores sell on the AH fairly regularly. Problem is, there's over 100 on the AH and the history lists 9k each one. I thought I listed mine low enough that they would sell, but they've been sitting on there for over a week now and as Tride pointed out, it's a chore at best to go through and relist your stuff.

While there probably isn't enough of a playerbase yet to warrant a limit to the number of things you can list, a time limit on things before they get returned would be nice. Sure the items listed from people who no longer play would be removed from the AH, but if they haven't sold by now they were listed for a price no one is going to pay so that shouldn't be an issue.

Teku
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:08 pm

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Teku » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:59 pm

What is best? The price that gets the item moved the fastest, or the price that gives you the best reward on time invested? The point is that nothing outside of vendorables are going to get you fast money - all else is a waiting game with varying durations of time. If you cannot wait, or are unwilling to play the pricing game, find an item worth vendoring. The fact is, you don't know how many of that item behind you has been undercut - it could be a couple or a couple dozen.

Icon
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Icon » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:39 pm

We would like to add a time limit to how long items can be listed on the AH. There are other issues to take into mind with this change though. Some players probably have near 1k items on the AH by now and your delivery box only has so many slots. It will take time but we will come up with a solution that we like and hopefully players will deem a good change as well.

Limiting how many items a single player is able to list on the AH is kind of pointless since you can have unlimited accounts.

Alexander
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:33 pm

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Alexander » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:13 pm

Icon wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:39 pm
We would like to add a time limit to how long items can be listed on the AH. There are other issues to take into mind with this change though. Some players probably have near 1k items on the AH by now and your delivery box only has so many slots. It will take time but we will come up with a solution that we like and hopefully players will deem a good change as well.

Limiting how many items a single player is able to list on the AH is kind of pointless since you can have unlimited accounts.
Is it possible to add sales status that shows all items listed? This would help drastically, however I understand if it isn't something you can do due to the game not being open-source.
Previously Gweivyth @ Nasomi.

Scott
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Scott » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:53 am

Icon wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:39 pm
We would like to add a time limit to how long items can be listed on the AH. There are other issues to take into mind with this change though. Some players probably have near 1k items on the AH by now and your delivery box only has so many slots. It will take time but we will come up with a solution that we like and hopefully players will deem a good change as well.

Limiting how many items a single player is able to list on the AH is kind of pointless since you can have unlimited accounts.
I don't see much of an issue with all of the items being queued in the delivery box. Although we'd have to deal with sorting right away, people wouldn't lose the goods. It'd be a headache for a select few, but this is a solid compromise. We can always make mules if we really want to keep those goods and are out of slots.

If items are allowed to be grandfathered in to stay on the AH, most certainly, some will never come down.
Alexander wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:13 pm
Is it possible to add sales status that shows all items listed? This would help drastically, however I understand if it isn't something you can do due to the game not being open-source.
Everything is possible, but this would be extremely impractical unless it was via command line--which would kill the experience.

Aelastiar
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:38 am

Re: Economy Discussion

Post by Aelastiar » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:03 am

Sell npc drops like you should be doing. Bird Blood, black tiger fang quest, davoi, beastmen armor from one of the multitudes of zones. Cut out the AH and you'll be amazed at how quickly 30k/hr adds up.

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