Threat Decay

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Tectal
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:41 pm

Threat Decay

Post by Tectal » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:24 am

Threat is not decaying quick enough. people are hitting the threat cap way too quickly on prolonged fights, and are able to pull hate off of provokes and invincible with things like cure 3. I feel as though time-volatile enmity decay is not functioning properly. I was able to find the following formula:

Time-volatile enmity = 240*d/standard damage

"In other words, if you are dealing standard damage every 4 seconds, time-volatile enmity is repeatedly decaying from 240 to 0."

Honestly, I am not sure if this helps, but I hope it does.

Elysien
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Threat Decay

Post by Elysien » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:14 pm

are able to pull hate off of provokes and invincible with things like cure 3. I feel as though time-volatile enmity decay is not functioning properly. I was able to find the following formula
You could be right about VE not decaying fast enough, however the above is feasible to happen, even on retail, once the PLD and RDM are hat-capped.

When both players are bordering on the hate cap, it doesn't matter how much VE/CE invincible generates over a RDM's Cure III, the last action will be taking the monsters attention.
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Icon
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Threat Decay

Post by Icon » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:50 pm

Hi Tectal,

The enmity system has been researched, reviewed, modified and studied here quite a bit. Here are some links to other discussions about it:
http://kupoffxi.net/viewtopic.php?f=15& ... nmity#p323
http://kupoffxi.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t ... lit=enmity

I believe there may be more but I'm not positive. Anyhow this is a good link about how enmity works in FFXI:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Enmity
http://kanican.livejournal.com/17795.html

We believe we have our enmity system as close to retail as can be replicated at this point. If we did what you're suggesting here "increase Volatile enmity decay" then paladin's would be an even worse tank since all of their abilities are VE (http://kanican.livejournal.com/18921.html). To make further changes to our formulas we would need some solid evidence/research showing exactly what was off based on Kanican's research.

Scott
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Threat Decay

Post by Scott » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:13 pm

Icon wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:50 pm

We believe we have our enmity system as close to retail as can be replicated at this point. If we did what you're suggesting here "increase Volatile enmity decay" then paladin's would be an even worse tank since all of their abilities are VE (http://kanican.livejournal.com/18921.html). To make further changes to our formulas we would need some solid evidence/research showing exactly what was off based on Kanican's research.
I'm sure you guys know this but just pointing it out in case you don't. These tables were ninja updated over time. For a fact I know blind and dispel were changed as well as bar spells. I don't know if PLD was CE nerfed over time, NIN and RDM were though. Hopefully web.archive has something.

Tectal
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:41 pm

Re: Threat Decay

Post by Tectal » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:20 am

I will try to learn more about it and see what I can do to make this better. As it stands now though it is obvious something is wrong with threat decay, rendering things like enmity + useless after a few minutes into a fight because everybody is threat capped so quickly.

Is it possible the threat ceiling is too low? I don't mean to bother you with a topic that has already been brought up and researched. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

@elysien every person who has done endgame has said this is a rather large issue. Maybe you and I can get together and figure out what's going on (if anything needs to be fixed at all that is.)

Icon
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Threat Decay

Post by Icon » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:50 am

Tectal wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:20 am
Is it possible the threat ceiling is too low? I don't mean to bother you with a topic that has already been brought up and researched. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Enmity in FFXI changed a great deal in 2011 with this patch: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threa ... ion-Update
(post #3 on enmity)

Perhaps you're used to playing the greatly modified more current version of FFXI? Our enmity cap is what the cap was before the 2011 change.

Tectal
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:41 pm

Re: Threat Decay

Post by Tectal » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:31 am

I stopped playing in 2007, so that isn't it. It's also not just me, every person I've asked has echoed the same issue (I know this is conjecture, sorry.)

I will put my time into getting you actual evidence, you have given me a good place to start.

Mcdohl
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:47 pm

Re: Threat Decay

Post by Mcdohl » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:46 pm

Enmity is not the same here as it was in era retail. I tanked everything there was in RoZ, CoP, ToaU, and WotG as pld/nin and never had enmity issues. Like none at all ever. On both private servers that I have played on(here and nas) however, enmity is a struggle on longer fights. I'm not really sure where the problem lies exactly, but it is there. If the code lines up with the sources, then I say question the sources. A lot of this stuff is just theorycrafting done by a bunch of kids with too much time on their hands anyway and shouldn't always be taken as the absolute truth. I understand that people have very different memories of how things were and this makes it difficult to change anything based on what people remember alone. It's hard for me to say "my memory is better'" and expect you to believe me over someone else. But in this case I ask that you look more into it because tanking right now is just not right.

Icon
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 am

Re: Threat Decay

Post by Icon » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:35 pm

We will take another look at some parts of the enmity system after a few more of the projects we're working on are complete

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